Seiko Club Singapore Museum

A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .

004
A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .
I had a very interesting conversation with a client , who is a watch maker in Australia several months ago . He finished servicing my Longines Chrono , upon his return of my watch i asked him the question ? i wanted a honest answer "but never got before" .

The watchmaker works contractual for Tissot , Omega , Rolex , Longines & various other Swiss watches in Australia & he was born & trained in watchmaking in Europe .

Question , is Rolex or Omega as good as they are made out to be ? Also given his choice "which watch would he own" ?

He answered that Rolex & Omega are well made watches , are they worth their big $$$ he said "not really" . He noted that a $2500 Tissot will be as good & is his actual choice of watch , he said that Tissot actually supplies other big brand Swiss watch Companies with parts & to purchase any watch above the Tissot $2500 Automatic range is a waste of ones $$ for a Swiss watch .

The impression he given me was , for a Swiss watch "Tissot" is the way to go & no need to spend more than $2500 in order to have a Swiss watch that will give a lifetime of service .

I just wanted to share his advise to me , ofcourse this is his opinion only .
Ed.YEO
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .

"MIKER"

...The impression he given me was , for a Swiss watch "Tissot" is the way to go & no need to spend more than $2500 in order to have a Swiss watch that will give a lifetime of service .

I just wanted to share his advise to me , ofcourse this is his opinion only .

I won't be surprised that he will talk only about TISSOT. As that's perhaps the one and only reputable budget SWISS brand in the Australian market, which is much more affordable than HAMILTON.

Should he have chance to stumble upon those VFM labels such as STEINHART, UHR as well as other Micro-brands that use ETA movements as well... most likely he will advise his customers to go for TISSOT for the convenience of after sales servicing in DOWN UNDER, in comparison to the hassle of sending those Micro-brands back to where they're from... just to claim on the warranties.



You might not have talked to Mr.GOH of K2 with this subject... but one thing i can be affirmative to you is that he too have that same thoughts on ETA movements, just like your watchmaker back in Australia. But he won't recommend to go for brands under the SWATCH group... Reason? Well... if you have do a search in both this forum, as well as in WUS... horror stories surrounding the SWATCH group are there for you to discover...
lunarin79
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .
to be frank.



Asian(majority) people does not think this way, as compared to Caucasians' way of thinking.



But..



it's still an apple vs an orange argument ;)



Ultimately, most people still goes for the 'Brand'
Ed.YEO
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .

"lunarin79"

to be frank.



Asian(majority) people does not think this way, as compared to Caucasians' way of thinking. ... ...Ultimately, most people still goes for the 'Brand'

I think the first thing that strikes on that Australian senior watchmaker are the "work horse" quality of ETA movements used in the TISSOT watches, then follows by the brand.

After all, the ETA movements are globally recognised as "work horse" movements for they are easy to service/repair/work on, as well as easy on getting parts replacements?
004
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .
I have read of the horror servicing stories , that come from customers of Swatch group owned brand watches here in Singapore .

The watchmaker , i mention is a contractor to many Swiss brands in Australia . He

Contracts to Swiss watch dealer stores , that have too hard to repair cases or are overwhelmed with servicing in house & need to outsource work to meet demand .
Ed.YEO
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .

"MIKER"

...The watchmaker works contractual for Tissot , Omega , Rolex , Longines & various other Swiss watches in Australia & he was born & trained in watchmaking in Europe ....

When you mentioned of the 3 underlined above... i could figure out his connection already... Of course not forgetting the Richmont group as well as other "Elite" labels in the Aussie market.
004
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .
The point being , when or if you want a no frills , workhorse Swiss watch that will equal any luxury & expensive Swiss brand "buy a Tissot" he recommended to me .

He actually wears a vintage Tissot , which he brought back from the dead & personally modified it & now swears by it .
004
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .

"Ed.YEO"

[quote="MIKER"]...The watchmaker works contractual for Tissot , Omega , Rolex , Longines & various other Swiss watches in Australia & he was born & trained in watchmaking in Europe ....

When you mentioned of the 3 underlined above... i could figure out his connection already... Of course not forgetting the Richmont group as well as other "Elite" labels in the Aussie market.[/quote]

Yes you are correct , with his connection as he said that Tissot make most of the Longines parts now days "Swatch Group" .
Ed.YEO
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .
That proves the he have good confidence with TISSOT, which have been on his wrist for a certain period of time.

However, in today's watch world, the newer generation TISSOT have inconsistant qualities just like any other budget brands in SWATCH Group.

This is why vintage SWISS makes are better collectibles than the new generation watches.

However, when we go for vintage makes, the major challenge awaiting us, will be the availability of the parts to those movements... which are majority not the same in engineering as the current generation of the "work horse" movements...



The oldest mechanical i've owned... for 17yrs approx...

004
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .
Just to point out , i am by no means a expert in horology . In actual fact am just a Seiko watch wearing dude , that knows only the basics of watches etc

I have alot to learn & only making a statement , from whats been passed on to me from a watchmaker "that i know to be a honest guy" .
Ed.YEO
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .
I'm not saying that your watchmaker is supportive of certain brand... just to point out.

Actually, i believe most watchmakers will agree, no matter where they are from, either from SG or AU or even other parts of the world... they will most likely to agree together that the ETA movements are the easiest to work on. Be it simple 3 handers or more complex Chronos... since they're mostly trained on these SWISS work horse movements that are still going on strong.

Should the initial cost of the SWISS movements had not gone up so high in the past 2yrs... Australian company, ORANGE watches would not have to switch to the use of Chinese SEAGULL movement as well as MIYOTAS on their watches.



However, when it comes to brands, in today's world of watches, you'll get different answers and response.

No doubt, your watchmaker back in Australia is as honest as Mr.GOH @ K2. They share the same positive thoughts on the ETA movements.
Solanum88
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .
To be fair I think the law of diminishing returns applies to all watches, not just the swiss

VFM or not , watches are very personal objects and one should buy what he/she fancies, within his/her means.
004
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .

"Solanum88"

watches are very personal objects and one should buy what he/she fancies, within his/her means.


I agree with your comments , in this particular regard .
Mobilenerd
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .
Whether one needs to spend more than $2500 on a watch is a personal matter also. In all my years onlne, and I have come across all different kinds of people in my line of work, I think watches are a little like cameras, cars, phones and other luxury goods.



Many people carry expensive cameras with huge lenses to show that they can take good pics.

Many people drive expensive cars not because they are more reliable ( I know of certain expensive cars which have a tendency to break down also)

Many people use LV bags not because its reliable, a Furla works just as well.



So its more of a show rather than a question of whether that brand of watch is reliable. Imagine it like a pissing contest.



I personally was given a 70s Tudor divers when I was a teenager and it broke down often, so I threw it into the sea and got me a Casio which was all the rage back then.



So that is why, many camera brands, coffee brands, cars, etc exist. Not saying that Rolex or Panerai don't make good watches, they do. But it's whether you think it is something you can appreciate.



Just my 2 cents.
funksoulava
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .

"Mobilenerd"

Many people carry expensive cameras with huge lenses to show that they can take good pics.


Expensive cameras with huge lenses do not make good pics. A simple point and shoot camera in the hands of an excellent photographer does. =)
004
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .
If someone feels the need or desire to spend big $$ on a Swiss watch , i say congratulations to them & well done for having the means to do so .

I only mentioned the watchmakers comments , as non watch collectors or watch enthusiasts, mostly think unless they spend big dollars $8000 + , they aint getting a quality Swiss watch . When in actual fact , Swiss movement watches costing approx $2000 + are very good quality .
fireal
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .
what kind of tissot is $2500 anyway ? :o
Ed.YEO
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .

"fireal"

what kind of tissot is $2500 anyway ? :o

Since brudder MIKER is not a full blown SWISS player yet... i don't think he knows what the watchmaker was referring to...

But a search on the online retailer's catalogue, it may not need to be a complex or complication movement. Just the material used on the casing could be very ex already. For example...



@ AceJewelers selling @ 2.2k euro...

http://www.acejewelers.com/Tissot-T-Gold-Oroville-T71846254/en/product/1933404.aspx" false;
004
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .
^^

Spot on there , i dont have clue as to which model Tissot the watchmaker referred to me . Only that he said higher end Tissot's costing $2000+ & not the $800 to $1200 varieties . are high quality Swiss watches that rival , the better know Swiss luxury watches .
Cosmograph
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .

"fireal"

what kind of tissot is $2500 anyway ? :o


The kind that I wouldn't be buying nor do I think many bros here will. :lol:
funksoulava
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .

"Cosmograph"

[quote="fireal"]what kind of tissot is $2500 anyway ? :o


The kind that I wouldn't be buying nor do I think many bros here will. :lol:[/quote]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Astro2212
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .
A noob question here...

Wat movt does the HIGHER END TISSOT use?
Ed.YEO
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .

"Astro2212"

A noob question here...

Wat movt does the HIGHER END TISSOT use?

Chronometer grade 2824?
MeePokMan
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .

"Astro2212"

A noob question here...

Wat movt does the HIGHER END TISSOT use?


maybe comes with latest generation of T-Touch Technology?
Astro2212
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .
Ok thanks ed n mpm...for awhile i thought higher end tissot using 916 gold
004
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .

"lunarin79"

to be frank.



Asian(majority) people does not think this way, as compared to Caucasians' way of thinking.

Ultimately, most people still goes for the 'Brand'


I feel you are correct , Asian way of thinking is very different compared to the thinking of a Aussie guy like me . I have noticed while here in SG a trend for Asian ppl to buy big name western brands , the more prestige & expensive the better . I see heaps of women with LV handbags , men with Rolex , Omega watches etc "dont get me wrong" am glad here in SG ppl are so wealthy .

In Australia us guys are more rugged outdoors men & typically unrefined in our taste to more of a degree , we dont like to pay big $$ for bling "we want top quality" but that means tool like quality & function & brands like Tissot are strong & reliable that dont cost the earth for a Swiss watch . Also most of us Aussie guys , do have a appreciation for luxury goods "but" we dont care to buy them prefering to spend the $$ on maybe a fishing trip or outdoors adventure with our mates over a BBQ with a few beers .

But there is a growing market in Australia for luxury goods , but nowhere near the scale as Singapore .
sellwatch
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .

"Cosmograph"

[quote="fireal"]what kind of tissot is $2500 anyway ? :o


The kind that I wouldn't be buying nor do I think many bros here will. :lol:[/quote]

buy liao will tio sot si bo? :lol:
sellwatch
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .
Got one ah siao traded his speedie for a tissot on HWZ iirc. And he was raving abt the t-touch technology blah blah blah. :roll:



oh ya, his nick is siao kau.
lunarin79
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .

"MIKER"

[quote="lunarin79"]to be frank.



Asian(majority) people does not think this way, as compared to Caucasians' way of thinking.

Ultimately, most people still goes for the 'Brand'


I feel you are correct , Asian way of thinking is very different compared to the thinking of a Aussie guy like me . I have noticed while here in SG a trend for Asian ppl to buy big name western brands , the more prestige & expensive the better . I see heaps of women with LV handbags , men with Rolex , Omega watches etc "dont get me wrong" am glad here in SG ppl are so wealthy .

In Australia us guys are more rugged outdoors men & typically unrefined in our taste to more of a degree , we dont like to pay big $$ for bling "we want top quality" but that means tool like quality & function & brands like Tissot are strong & reliable that dont cost the earth for a Swiss watch . Also most of us Aussie guys , do have a appreciation for luxury goods "but" we dont care to buy them prefering to spend the $$ on maybe a fishing trip or outdoors adventure with our mates over a BBQ with a few beers .

But there is a growing market in Australia for luxury goods , but nowhere near the scale as Singapore .[/quote]

true.



this is the difference ;)



now see, how many Singaporeans will wear a Timex or a Alba seriously :mrgreen:
004
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .
^^

Am in shock , your saying you dont own a Alba ? :lol: to be honest i didnt even know Alba exsisted till i seen them @ Thong Sia .
lunarin79
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .

"MIKER"

^^

Am in shock , your saying you dont own a Alba ? :lol: to be honest i didnt even know Alba exsisted till i seen them @ Thong Sia .


i do owned some Albas before, as well as Timexes ;)



nice watches as casual or beaters but they never stayed long in my stable, if ya know what I mean ;)
herzausstahl
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .
This thread should be made a sticky.



'Cultural and Technical Cognitive Biases 101'



:grin:



Sent from my KVH Tracphone V3 using Tapatalk 2
Cosmograph
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .

"sellwatch"

Got one ah siao traded his speedie for a tissot on HWZ iirc. And he was raving abt the t-touch technology blah blah blah. :roll:



oh ya, his nick is siao kau.


That kind of nick, what to expect? :lol:
Cosmograph
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .

"sellwatch"

[quote="Cosmograph"]


The kind that I wouldn't be buying nor do I think many bros here will. :lol:


buy liao will tio sot si bo? :lol:[/quote]

Saw a tissot MSRP for $8,888, rose gold limited 333 pieces, so buy this qualify sot Bo? Or genius VFM, I wonder... :lol:
sellwatch
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .

"Cosmograph"

[quote="sellwatch"]


buy liao will tio sot si bo? :lol:


Saw a tissot MSRP for $8,888, rose gold limited 333 pieces, so buy this qualify sot Bo? Or genius VFM, I wonder... :lol:[/quote]

I think forum watch more vfm. Take the balance buy 916 gold.
Ed.YEO
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .

"MIKER"

I feel you are correct , Asian way of thinking is very different compared to the thinking of a Aussie guy like me . I have noticed while here in SG a trend for Asian ppl to buy big name western brands , the more prestige & expensive the better . I see heaps of women with LV handbags , men with Rolex , Omega watches etc "dont get me wrong" am glad here in SG ppl are so wealthy .

In Australia us guys are more rugged outdoors men & typically unrefined in our taste to more of a degree , we dont like to pay big $$ for bling "we want top quality" but that means tool like quality & function & brands like Tissot are strong & reliable that dont cost the earth for a Swiss watch . Also most of us Aussie guys , do have a appreciation for luxury goods "but" we dont care to buy them prefering to spend the $$ on maybe a fishing trip or outdoors adventure with our mates over a BBQ with a few beers .

But there is a growing market in Australia for luxury goods , but nowhere near the scale as Singapore .


This is kind of... subjective when we see things superficially... "am glad here in SG ppl are so wealthy ."? Ha~~~~ not really so... Out of ten of these ROLEX/OMEGA owners you saw out there, how many of them are really fully paid, in a shot? How many are still have the debts dangling behind their back? How many of them are...erm... fakes which you couldn't tell with your naked eyes?

Singapore is turning to be like HongKong on the way, where most people will be clueless of what they pay for, or is it necessary to pay for... They'll eventually become more brand influenced.

"am glad here in SG ppl are so wealthy ."... HK folks are more $$$ than us...
004
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .
^^

So its the same here as in western countries debts for items we dont need , but we want . Maybe i thought Asian ppl were smarter & paid cash in SG & didnt use their credit card , as in Australia most Asian "particularly Vietnamese ppl" only like to deal with cash & not use a credit card .
Astro2212
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .
How to apply credit card???
okies8
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .

"Astro2212"

How to apply credit card???


Wear u Rollie on both wrist to shopping mall n walk like u agong lawz...bank promoter bao approach u
Astro2212
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .

"okies8"

[quote="Astro2212"]How to apply credit card???


Wear u Rollie on both wrist to shopping mall n walk like u agong lawz...bank promoter bao approach u[/quote]
Knn wait imh pple come bring me back leh... :lol:
Ed.YEO
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .

"MIKER"

^^

So its the same here as in western countries debts for items we dont need , but we want . Maybe i thought Asian ppl were smarter & paid cash in SG & didnt use their credit card , as in Australia most Asian "particularly Vietnamese ppl" only like to deal with cash & not use a credit card .

The credit card usage on buying expensive watches are quite common here in SG.As there are always several modes in making payments. The most common one that we have here are hire purchase tie in to the respective CC companies. This is why there will be more Rolexes and Omegas on the street than another luxury brands on the market. But... How true does a watch buyer knows about his/her piece on their wrist?

Mr.Goh once serviced a Hermes. And I was shocked to find out from him that the movement use is as simple as a standard grade 2824 from ETA, without decorations!
lunarin79
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .

"Ed.YEO"

Mr.Goh once serviced a Hermes. And I was shocked to find out from him that the movement use is as simple as a standard grade 2824 from ETA, without decorations!


am not surprised ;)
Ed.YEO
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .

"funksoulava"

[quote="Cosmograph"]


The kind that I wouldn't be buying nor do I think many bros here will. :lol:


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:[/quote]

Just one another example to show...

Would you spend 5 digit figure on a watch with the same movement with only 4 figure?



priced @ 13700eu approx. @ AceJewelers



vs



or



priced @ 1920eu approx. @ AceJewelers
roo7
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .
The difference is in the case material right ? Solid gold ?



I guess it's like paying a premium for a Samurai Titanium VS the stainless steel version.. Same watch, same movement, just different case material.



Solid gold or silver vintage Russian watches is very valuable too as compared to their SS or chromed polished counterparts.
Ed.YEO
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .


Productreference: L26738786

Brand: Longines

Watch strap: Rose gold strap

Watch movement: Automatic

Gender: Male

Material: [size=122]18 ct Rose Gold (4N)[/size]

Warranty: Two Years International

Case diameter: 40mm

Case shape: Round

Functions: Chronograph, Day-Date, Moon phase display

Water resistance: 30m = water resistant

Crystal: Sapphire

Case height: Unknown

Strap buckles: Folding buckle

Watch dial: Arabic numerals

Colour watch dial: Cream

Ace Branch: Ace & Spyer Jewelers

Delivery period: Ace will contact you for availability

:o :o :o Not SOLID GOLD at all...!
Ed.YEO
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .
Ironically, there's a "SS" cased TISSOT with moonphase complication more ex than the latest retrograde moonphase from Longines Heritage collection.
Cosmograph
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .

"Ed.YEO"

Ironically, there's a "SS" cased TISSOT with moonphase complication more ex than the latest retrograde moonphase from Longines Heritage collection.


Longines & Tissot so high end, think all the bros here better hurry rush and buy, otherwise miss the boat Liao Lo. :lol:
Ed.YEO
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .

"Cosmograph"

[quote="Ed.YEO"]Ironically, there's a "SS" cased TISSOT with moonphase complication more ex than the latest retrograde moonphase from Longines Heritage collection.


Longines & Tissot so high end, think all the bros here better hurry rush and buy, otherwise miss the boat Liao Lo. :lol:[/quote]
Ooobs... I didn't realized that the one i'm pointing, is with white gold casing... not SS. From far seems like SS wor...



@ 3350eu approx. from AceJewelers... will you go for it?



Not so... jia lat lah... @ least now a white dialed SS bracelet Le Locle(??) now still available @ 7xx @ Mustafa... not so scary yet...

balonglong_1979
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .

"Ed.YEO"

[quote="MIKER"]^^

So its the same here as in western countries debts for items we dont need , but we want . Maybe i thought Asian ppl were smarter & paid cash in SG & didnt use their credit card , as in Australia most Asian "particularly Vietnamese ppl" only like to deal with cash & not use a credit card .

The credit card usage on buying expensive watches are quite common here in SG.As there are always several modes in making payments. The most common one that we have here are hire purchase tie in to the respective CC companies. This is why there will be more Rolexes and Omegas on the street than another luxury brands on the market. But... How true does a watch buyer knows about his/her piece on their wrist?

Mr.Goh once serviced a Hermes. And I was shocked to find out from him that the movement use is as simple as a standard grade 2824 from ETA, without decorations![/quote]

actually when you walk into cortina or hour glass, they will quote you "cash" term.

if you tell them pay credit card they will add 2%



i believe most would prefer to pay cash and get a lower price - 2% on 10k watch is already 200 bucks. unless you buy from some atas boutique which cannot "cham siong" discount one....
004
Re: A Watchmakers View On Swiss Watches .
Credit card fee ussually 1.5% for Visa / Master Card & 3% for Amex / Diners , for purchases over $1500.00 + in Australia .