Would you...

ok bros im having some kind of diliema right now, I recently got an SKX007 in a trade and upgraded it with Super Oyster Bracelet and Sapphire crystal and it just struck me today that I am in love with this watch alot more than a grail of mine I accquired earlier this year ( a Sub ND). Its shortcomings for the price tag are starting to bother me (sharp case lugs, non solid end links/mid links)



Would it be a good idea to trade/sell the Sub ND away for MM300/Credor Pheonix + cash ? (I know the answer could be a little bias here though :lol: ) I haven't had a chance to fiddle with a MM300 but sources online seem to point that the MM300 is better finished than the Sub, can anyone who own/handled both share their views?



Thanks :)

Follow ur heart!

It won't go wrong!



:evil:





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Here's a photo of a Rolex Sub with MM300 taken by CEO.







Putting the price tag aside, a Seiko MM300 is "rarer" to a certain sense since it's not commonly found out there and so far, I see more Rolex Sub than SKX007. :lol:



My view is definitely biased, if I ever owned a Sub, it's only because it's a Rolex and not because it's a Sub, as Sub is the only logical model to select for a diver watch.



I can't say the same for MM300. The reason why I have a MM300, is because of it's monobloc case design, 8L movement, the finishing and lastly, it's more or less a grail to Seiko collectors.



A Sub is just another luxury Swiss watch model. ;)



Herz can always add his opinion as he have both MM300 and sub, he can give you a better comparison.

Hey, I'm really glad that you are in love in the 007. I guess you have factor in that all the mods and efforts put in and did a comparison with a stock Swiss Rollie.



These two watch IMO is great but you should take into consderation that you are comparing a Swiss to a jap mvnt watch.



Like the brudders here said, follow your heart and go to where it takes you.

Fwah...well say on follow ur heart ;)



any comparsion on GMT watches (Jpn against Swiss)... :mrgreen:

Hi Becky, thanks for the trade, I really like the 007 :)

Yea I took the whole swiss/jap movement thing into consideration, but considering MMs are handmade (or so I read, not sure about the Credor Pheonix) while the 3000 series caliber for the Sub is probably churn out in large quantities by machines to meet the 1mil + yearly production numbers. The commonality of the Sub and the amount of fakes out in the wild also bothers me, I cant count how many times I got asked if I bought mine from Bangkok due to my age :lol:



One serious delima I have at this point would be it seem much easier to liquidate a Sub ND than a MM300 should the need arise/ availibility of spare parts for the MM300 in the long run.

You have your point about the "factory produced" sub. :lol:



I reckon the MM300 would be also easy to liquidate base on my stay on this forum, in fact many lurkers out there in the wild! :D that being said, i would recommend if you are set on the mm300, go go and hoot it jialut jialut..



For me, a submarina is always a grail which I would want one but can justify the price point. Need alot of poison and vitamin M to get me there.



Ps : flip me the rollie, i draw a mm300 :P onto your wrist

If you wanted just one Rolex, a sub is probably the worst model to keep (unless vintage). In one lunch break I can easily see 10 dudes wearing a sub. Sell your Sub ND, buy a MM300 and save the remainder for another Rolex model.

"Solanum88"

ok bros im having some kind of diliema right now, I recently got an SKX007 in a trade and upgraded it with Super Oyster Bracelet and Sapphire crystal and it just struck me today that I am in love with this watch alot more than a grail of mine I accquired earlier this year ( a Sub ND). Its shortcomings for the price tag are starting to bother me (sharp case lugs, non solid end links/mid links)



Would it be a good idea to trade/sell the Sub ND away for MM300/Credor Pheonix + cash ? (I know the answer could be a little bias here though :lol: ) I haven't had a chance to fiddle with a MM300 but sources online seem to point that the MM300 is better finished than the Sub, can anyone who own/handled both share their views?



Thanks :)

"kqxrseiko"

If you wanted just one Rolex, a sub is probably the worst model to keep (unless vintage). In one lunch break I can easily see 10 dudes wearing a sub. Sell your Sub ND, buy a MM300 and save the remainder for another Rolex model.


[quote="Solanum88"]ok bros im having some kind of diliema right now, I recently got an SKX007 in a trade and upgraded it with Super Oyster Bracelet and Sapphire crystal and it just struck me today that I am in love with this watch alot more than a grail of mine I accquired earlier this year ( a Sub ND). Its shortcomings for the price tag are starting to bother me (sharp case lugs, non solid end links/mid links)



Would it be a good idea to trade/sell the Sub ND away for MM300/Credor Pheonix + cash ? (I know the answer could be a little bias here though :lol: ) I haven't had a chance to fiddle with a MM300 but sources online seem to point that the MM300 is better finished than the Sub, can anyone who own/handled both share their views?



Thanks :)

[/quote]

That is so true.

I was at suntec the whole week and during lunch hrs, I spotted so many Rollie subs. And not even one mm300. I did get a few looks at my mm300 though.



Just my personal preference, I like to hv something that's a little unique and rare.

Just curious... How many mm300 are produced each year?

Anyone know?

"big-e-294"

That is so true.

I was at suntec the whole week and during lunch hrs, I spotted so many Rollie subs. And not even one mm300. I did get a few looks at my mm300 though.



Just my personal preference, I like to hv something that's a little unique and rare.

Ya, there are so many unique pieces to choose from, why would you want to be same same? :lol: :lol:



Seriously, Rolex has the name recognition built into the price now. Nothing wrong with that if you want to make sure others know what you have. The MM300 and Credor Phoenix? Name branding here is not as relevant, meaning better value for money in my mind, , and that so much more me. :) Or better yet, the MM300's big brother, the SD600!! :D



(man I really need a raise / someone to cut off my credit card.... Just can't save up for the SD600.... :lol:)

whenever i see a GS on street, be it a vintage or a current model, i will have goosebumps....not becos it's cold la...but becos it's almost 1/1000 to spot another person appreciating this brand & strapping on a piece of fine history on his wrist ;)



this reminds me of an incident when i was at Bencoolen last year. I was inside Win's browsing at G-shocks, a middle aged uncle was at the counter trying on a Protrek, his watch was on the countertop.



I was standing at the other end of the shop but somehow, my eyes were drawn onto his watch on the counter, it looked so....Seiko..



i K K walked nearer & took a quick peek, initially I thought it must be a Swiss high end brand although the watch is a very simple looking 3 needle dress watch, from far I could see the finishing of the watch is definitely differently from other watches



V.C? P.P?



But no, it's not a Swiss.



The Gothic style fonts are so familiar to me, giving me goosebump & my heart beat faster,LOL



It was a Grand Seiko ;)



I waited for the uncle to have eye contact to me & I told him



'Hey, nice Grand Seiko'



He looked stunned,lol! Maybe he thought i siao one..



then he smiled back.



8-)

Personally I'd flip the rolex sub nd for MM300 and probably keep an eye for another used rolex sub to acquire.. Say all you want, but deep inside, no thanks to a certain double-0 agent, you want a sub.. I hate myself for it sometimes.. But watcha gonna do ? I've got soft spot for iconic watches



Just my 2cents

I think my mind is pretty made up. Just wondering do you guys switch out the hardlex crystal for sapphire ? And if so who can do it locally ? K2 ?

Roo asked me to add my opinion, but I wanted to read the responses from the bros and yourself before weighing in.



Now I know you have a 3000 calibre, and you are probably born in 1988?



Do you like sports cars and know a bit about them?

"herzausstahl"

Roo asked me to add my opinion, but I wanted to read the responses from the bros and yourself before weighing in.



Now I know you have a 3000 calibre, and you are probably born in 1988?



Do you like sports cars and know a bit about them?

Yep im born in 1988

I do know a little bit about sports car but not really the technical parts though

Wow, surprised to see you've already sold off the Rolex w/o a source for the MM300 or the Credor Phoenix! I honestly wish you good luck in finding a Credor Phoenix (which seems to be your first choice); it's an great design, the dial's just beautiful, the 8L movement and that onyx on the crown just make it a cool watch to wear.



However, don't know how much luck you're going to have sourcing one in Singapore, and even internationally itdoesn't seem like it was a widely sold watch (though it's not an LE or anything). The MM300's not a bad fallback option, I guess. :lol:



And Herz, still awaiting to see your analysis here. Probably one of the more balanced... ;)





Edit: oh, looks like you've already got WTB's going up on int'l forums. Hope you find a good one!

"CoolieND"

And Herz, still awaiting to see your analysis here. Probably one of the more balanced... ;)

Oh I thought our bro here already made up his mind and sold the Submariner, so decided to just zip my thoughts :oops: Ok here's some casual thoughts...



Given the price difference, in terms of raw technical ability, the MM300 should be the better watch. By the similar reasoning, I'd suggest that for the money, an SKX007 is better than an MM300 given the price difference. If money is the sole benchmark, buy an MM300. (If accuracy is the sole benchmark, buy an atomic solar Casio G-shock Frogman.)



The MM300 is a unique, with no fashion-type of variations. It is just that, the MM300, no need to ask which dial, half-gold, etc. Same for the Submariner; it sticks out like a sore thumb in Rolex's line-up - it does not share it's case, nor bracelet, nor bezel, nor dial, with any other current production sports rolex (not even the Submariner Date). This means that an entire production line is kept alive dedicated to making the archaic "sharp" lugs, the bezel, the slimmer case, the drilled lugs, the dial etc. And those of us in manufacturing will know that this is costly. Even in mass-production there are different orders of magnitude of economies of scale. I assume the same for the MM300 (Seiko has so many models, so I'm not sure if the MM300 shares any of it's body with the others), so in this regard I feel that they square off. (And incidentally, I regard the drilled lugs, the sharp edges, rattly clasp etc of the Submariner as design elements, not shortcomings. Given that Rolex provides support for a model for 30 years, and that the entire professional line has migrated to the larger cases, I am not sure if selling more Submariners [with it's unique set of spares, less the movement] makes economic sense.)



Design-wise, the Submariner is timeless, remaining virtually unchanged for decades, and is very much the archetype dive watch design. The MM300 came much later, and to my sense of aesthetics, falls into the Submariner family of design, rather than the Fifty Fathoms family. So in this sense they are related, with the Submariner being the progenitor. I own a Submariner and I hold in my hands a design that withstood decades of fashion. If design history was the sole benchmark, I'd buy a Submariner.



A lot of us here collect vintage Seiko's, and vintage Seiko divers are hugely popular here. 62MAS to 7002s all have their share of fans here, despite the sometimes hefty price that these command. But we still buy them, and I think it is because they have a lot of charisma and gravitas. This charisma we do not get from the newer models. Yes a Monster glows like a torch and comes ready to use, but I would always give a nice 62MAS a second and third look. A 62MAS has gravitas, it is an important watch in the Seiko evolution. If Seiko were to re-issue a 62MAS, with updated movement but retaining the essential flavour of the original, I am sure it will find a lot of fans among us (me included). I want to suggest that a Submariner 14060 is just that, a re-issue, or an almost unchanged version of the original Rolex dive watch, and in that regard it is important, and has gravitas, without the hefty price-tag or maintenance heartache of acquiring the original. Like a hypothetical reissued 62MAS. The Submariner is an old watch, it has so much history, and it has gravitas beyond the Rolex brand. If this was the sole criterion I would go with the Submariner.



However, because of the vast and long lineage of the Submariner, the collectibility or importance varies quite abit depending on which vintage the 14060 being discussed belongs to. And since TS' was an S series, I think I'd probably take an MM300 over it. If it was a 14060 of a different vintage and may be important (for example the non-COSC 14060M, or the COSC 14060M with Parachrom Blue spring), the analysis might be different.



Ok here's an MM300 for the TS







And here's my latest Submariner, possibly the only series with the Parachrom Blue before discontinuation







Have great week ahead everyone!

Thanks for the well thought out analysis herzausstahl !

Yea CoolieND I sold it off without having a source for the MM300/Credor. Already messaged Higuchi-san too, hope he is able to source the Pheonix for me :D

"Solanum88"

Thanks for the well thought out analysis herzausstahl !

Yea CoolieND I sold it off without having a source for the MM300/Credor. Already messaged Higuchi-san too, hope he is able to source the Pheonix for me :D

If I'm not wrong, Higuchi does not do watch hunting. He only sell current models. Try SeiyaJapan.

"Yeoman"

[quote="Solanum88"]Thanks for the well thought out analysis herzausstahl !

Yea CoolieND I sold it off without having a source for the MM300/Credor. Already messaged Higuchi-san too, hope he is able to source the Pheonix for me :D

If I'm not wrong, Higuchi does not do watch hunting. He only sell current models. Try SeiyaJapan.[/quote]

correct!

seiya will hunt down a watch for you, but u will need to pay him a small commission fee (which i think it is fair, especially if the piece is discon).